Men’s Journal’s Everyday Warrior With Mike Sarraille is a new podcast that inspires individuals to live more fulfilling lives by having conversations with disrupters and high performers in all walks of life. In episode 26, we spoke with sportscaster and TV personality Erin Andrews.
Listen to the full episode above (scroll down for the transcript) and see more from this series below.
This interview has not been edited for length or clarity.
Mike Sarraille:
Well, well, welcome to the Men’s Journal Everyday Warrior Podcast. We’ve got a great guest today, Erin Andrews, award-winning sports broadcaster, television host, probably soon-to-be award-winning podcast host, which you guys are crushing it…Calm Down with Erin and Charissa.
Erin Andrews:
Aw, thank you.
Mike Sarraille:
And then, uh, how do I say it? Apparel icon [with WEAR by Erin Andrews], ‘cus you guys are already breaking records.
Erin Andrews:
Thanks. I appreciate, I mean, all of this, I, I thank you. I’ll have you, uh, give an intro whenever I walk in the room any old day,
Mike Sarraille:
I, I I’m, I’m currently unemployed outside of the Men’s Journal thing, so I’ll absolutely take that. And for the audience, you know, um, she was about 10 minutes late and then she comes in, she’s like, I’m, I’m sort of a big deal. I’ve got all these ad reads, you know, if that’s what you think of veterans and, and you know, our, our, our sacrifice to, to protect freedoms. I mean, I’m offended. I should just walk.
Erin Andrews:
No, no, no, no. I’m so grateful for our veterans and anyone who has served our country. I can’t tell you it’s, it’s not a joke, but we joke about it. My girlfriend, who is on the sidelines with me during football games, there’s always, you know, uh, we clap for the heroes. There’s a hero of the game. A lot of times during timeouts there’s, uh, you know, there’s a surprise welcome home sometimes. Ugh, my God, when I was at a Giants game, they, uh, they gave a veteran who came home a dog and I lost it. I mean, I cry for all of this stuff. It just touches my heart so much. I’m forever grateful for, you know, anyone who, uh, fights for our country. And, and I can’t thank you guys for your sacrifice and your service and yeah, it’s always, we always end up crying on the sidelines and my girlfriend, Jill and I are like, I love a serviceman. Like I just can’t even handle it.
Mike Sarraille:
I, Hey, I, I just totally was pulling your leg there, but, uh, have you ever seen like the, the guys that jump into the stadiums?
Erin Andrews:
Yeah. All the time because they, a lot of times, well, they do, they come down right where I’m standing. And so they’re there, pre-game kind of assessing the situation. Yeah. Checking it out. And that’s when I I’m there like four to five hours before the game. And so a lot of them are really great and I I’m, you know, I always walk by the, these men and women and thank them for their service and they always ask for pictures and stuff. And so a lot of times they’re coming down like right. Either before my hit or right after. And you’re just like, whoa. Yeah. But it’s really cool.
Mike Sarraille:
I probably would be the guy that hits the, uh, goal post and then, uh, falls and, and breaks himself. Um, so no, no, those guys, those guys are badass. I always enjoy watching them as well. Absolutely. So Erin, um, one, you know, as we were preparing for this, I’m like, I can’t name a sports broadcaster, a female sports broadcaster before Erin and I can’t name one now, uh, that may be my, my limited, uh, time that I, I spend watching, you know, watching ESPN and Fox Sports news, but, um, you’ve absolutely set the bar, the gold standard for, for, for all, all females trying to get into the, uh, to the space. But you know, for this podcast, you know, everyone’s like, oh, ask her, you know, what message you would have for young ladies. I’m like, mm-hmm, what does it matter? Young ladies, I mean, she’s achieved more success than 99.9% of men in the United States. Uh, again, you know, we already read your accolades, but you know, a lot of people never understand who you were before you reached this level. Take me back. Where were you born? I saw Maine of all places, then grew up in Florida, almost were a Texan for 18 months, but decided it wasn’t for you.
Erin Andrews:
Yeah, that was my dad. He was calling the shots ‘cus I was a young kid, but um, yeah, I was born in Lewis in Maine and my dad was working for the CBS affiliate in Maine and uh, we moved when I was five. Uh don’t remember much, just remember it was cold. Remember certain Christmases and things like that. Had a brief stay. As you mentioned in San Antonio, Texas. Um, my dad was kind of trying to move up a bit in the, um, media world. And then we moved to Tampa, Florida, when I was in second grade, I ended up going to high school college. Uh, my first gig outta college was, uh, with the Tampa Bay Lightning. So stayed pretty close to home until really my second job out of school, which was then with Turner broadcasting, where I worked for TBS Turner with the Atlanta Braves, the Atlanta Thrasher kind of their college football coverage and all that. And that’s when it kind of all just blew up and took off.
Mike Sarraille:
We were just in Tampa interviewing, uh, Dave Bautista. Okay. Uh, that was my first time in Tampa. Gorgeous city.
Erin Andrews:
Did your butt stick to the car? Like when you were driving, like the leather seats in the car when it’s a hundred degrees outside and you’re like, oh, my rear end is stuck to the seat.
Mike Sarraille:
So I actually feel bad cuz we were in my buddy’s Audi, which is a, you know, two door, low riding car, but there was this rainstorm that came outta nowhere. Mm. And so the streets were like flooded. Yeah. He tried to go through one of the large puddles and just kill the engine and uh, we had to have somebody come pick us up and I’ve got these. No. Oh, I, I had these, uh, ostrich Tecovas boots on mm-hmm there was no other way just wet right up to my shins. So, oh, the boots made it I’ll I’ll forever hold that against them, but uh, great city. Yeah. Do you still have family there or, or any?
Erin Andrews:
Oh yeah. My mom and dad still live there. My dad’s recently retired. My mom’s been retired for a bit, so, uh, yeah, they’re still there holding it down. Uh, they were cheering for the Tampa Bay Lightning during the Stanley Cup finals. And uh, I’ll be there a few times this year covering the box and yeah. So they’re there telling me every day how hot it is.
Mike Sarraille:
I, I, I can only imagine in Texas, uh, we, we would consider that they’re a little violin. We, we we’ve got heat out
Erin Andrews:
Here. Yeah. That’s true. I’ll stop it. Yeah, you’re right. You’re not, you’re not wrong at all.
Mike Sarraille:
So I, I know your father was in the space. What age did it hit? You? Like I’m, I’m doing what my dad does.
Erin Andrews:
Yeah. So that I wanted to pursue this career. Mm-hmm um, you know, it, wasn’t weird for me to see my dad on the six o’clock or the 11 o’clock, um, news. Actually, it was kind of our thing after my dad finished his, uh, story on the six o’clock we’d go meet him downtown and then go out to dinner because he’d have to stay there until the 11 and we’d have to go to bed. So, um, very common to see my dad on TV and, and all that. So, uh, my dad was, is a great storyteller and that was his way with being the first born, him telling me all about his teams and who he liked and who he didn’t like and stories about them. And I just loved hearing how he would describe things because again, that’s what he does for a living and he’s so good at it.
Erin Andrews:
So, um, yeah, I just, I remember saying at a very young age, my dad thinks I was probably about like six or seven. I was watching the NBA on NBC and Hannah storm was interviewing Charles Barkley, who is a good friend now. And, and one of my favorite interviews and people to even like text with or talk with, but she was interviewing him. And I just said, dad, I wanna do this. When I grow up. And his joke and lying back to me was Erin, everybody wants to do this when they grow interview Charles Barkley and yuck it up and things like that. But it pretty much was besides being Marine biologist. I was very into killer whale. I was very into, um, you know, anything, uh, with dolphins or humpbacks or I was very, very into Marine animals. Um, I, I knew that’s pretty much all I wanted to do was be a sports broadcaster, Marine biologist, probably would’ve been a little bit of different schooling that I wouldn’t have been good at. But, um, yeah, I, there was really no op second option for me. Like kids were writing in my high school, yearbooks, see you on ESPN. Um, you know, so that’s kind of, I, I didn’t have another plan after that.
Mike Sarraille:
Hey, focused and determined. I love it. Who, when you went to the university of Florida, I know you had telecommunications as the major was. Yeah. I mean, were you laser focused? You knew when you exited the university of Florida, which I’m sure was a lot of fun.
Erin Andrews:
It was, but I got down in four years and I mean, that’s I’ve, if you ask my parents, that’s probably a shock with the way it started.
Mike Sarraille:
Is that like a, a shock for most Florida? Is it usually five years? If you go to the university of Florida,
Erin Andrews:
Listen, getting into Florida now is so hard. I don’t even think I would get into that college now, but nothing to brag about. I was accepted in summer school because they said my grades or my SATs weren’t that great. Um, my mom thinks it was like a way that they would finance their, their school. So they would have kids come early. Sure. Mom, candy coded. I appreciate it. I wasn’t the smart kid. So I went to summer school. It was called summer B. And you only take two classes. I ended up having to drop one of the classes because my grades were so bad. And my dad, he just said to me, I’m gonna let you drop this class. You know, I’ve paid for it and everything. Your grades are terrible, but you do it again. You’re coming home and you’re gonna pay for your education after that. So, so
Mike Sarraille:
You got to go to, to college early.
Erin Andrews:
I had to go to college early. Yes.
Mike Sarraille:
That, that doesn’t seem like a punishment. That seems like, uh, you’re getting outta the house, uh, sooner, rather than, uh, later
Erin Andrews:
It was actually a lot harder than I thought it would be. Think about it. You’re there in the summer. The sports haven’t started yet. All my friends are still at home. They weren’t leaving for school yet. So I was going back and forth, you know, with the high school boyfriend, every single weekend because they weren’t leaving yet. And I was super bummed to be there. Probably wasn’t studying as much as I should have been. Um, and then my dad threatened me and yeah, four years it took, she gone
Mike Sarraille:
The, the, the power of you sometimes what they say it’s better to be feared rather than loved. Yes. As a parent. Yes. It’s, it’s a powerful motivator. I’ve always believed that. Um, so once you leave, what was it like to break in, especially into the sports world, as a woman?
Erin Andrews:
So obviously this is a, you know, common question people ask all the time. Yeah. For me, I was just so excited to get my first shot. And I was so excited because once I did, I started getting all these opportunities, all these roles, all these things presented to me. I didn’t have time to really worry about, I was really the only one in the room. I just wanted to do such a good time job. A lot of the times I was not even, I don’t wanna say educated enough, but my first job outta college, I was the ringside reporter for the, uh, Tampa bay lightning, who I love and adore so much because they gave me my first, my first chance and the organization has been so wonderful to my family. Um, I wasn’t ready for that gig. I wasn’t well educated for that. I didn’t know anything about hockey.
Erin Andrews:
I was coming from the university of Florida where sec is life, baby. I mean, another thing, my dad, he didn’t threaten me, but he was being honest, where I was trying to find a job at a school. And my dad was like, Hey, maybe you read more than just the Florida Gator section of the sports page. Like there’s other teams you need to start learning about. And low and behold, I got my first gig with the Tampa, big lightning. And I didn’t know crap about the NHL. I wouldn’t know a penalty kill from a face off to off sides, to all the things too many met on the ice. I mean, I was reading, I’ve said this before, you know, cliff notes, hockey for dummies the night before my interview. So I had zero experience. They wanted a young kid, they wanted a, you know, fresh face.
Erin Andrews:
They wanted a female. They wanted somebody who was homegrown. I was that, but the one thing that they didn’t, I think they knew that what they were getting from me, I was gonna work my ass off. And that’s just something that stayed consistent throughout my entire career almost to the point where it’s neurotic of how much I work and I care. Um, you know, my, my publicist who’s on this right now. She knows I, I turned down an opportunity to do celebrity wheel of fortune something. I think I would kick as in, but I got a preseason game that week. And I, I know I have interviews to do, and yes, I’ve done a ton of preseason games and it’s preseason it’s not week 18, but it means a lot to me. And I wanna study my ass off and I don’t wanna be, you know, telling pat SJA, you know, what, where, when, why, how of this, you know, like puzzle here when I got Kyle or Murray online once. So there you go.
Mike Sarraille:
So, you know, this is a common theme. People probably naturally see you on TV and she, they just think, oh, she’s a natural. It just came easy to her.
Erin Andrews:
Well, yeah, I wish, I wish. I mean, first of all, I have such a insecurity and chip on my shoulder because I never played in the league. I wouldn’t know what it’s like to lead a team down the field. I wouldn’t know what it’s like to make a comeback. I wouldn’t know what it’s like to lose five straight. Um, but what I do know is that I’ve worked my rear end off. And because of that guys, like Aaron Rogers, Tom Brady, Kyler, Murray, D Prescott, they trust me. Yeah. And, uh, if they wanna say, you know, any of the swear words or they wanna call somebody out, they know I’m standing right there. They know I’m gonna take care of them, but also report what I’m seeing and I’m hearing. And they also feel comfortable talking to me as well, um, on the phone that week as we prepare for their game. So, um, yeah, it doesn’t come easy at all. I wish it did. I, if it did, I wouldn’t be giving up opportunities to be on celebrity wheel of fortune. Uh I just feel like I really need to study. And I feel like every year I, I have to get better at what I’m doing because I, you know, you always are worried about the next best, best thing coming and replacing you, but also I know I can get better in certain areas. And I’m looking forward to that.
Mike Sarraille:
Is, is it a point of pride as well to, to show up, to be your very best
Erin Andrews:
It is? And I’m also really, really competitive, but it is, it is a point of pride. And, um, I think about the people that sit there and watch, and it’s not just the fans that I wanna do a great job for. It’s the organizations, it’s the general managers, it’s the players that are watching. It’s the coaches. I have such chest pains and feelings of guilt when I mess up. And I have messed up before where I have misquoted someone, not because I got, I, I thought I got the quote wrong. I just misspoke. I twisted two words and it affected me the entire game. I ended up, you know, sending a ton of apologies. I felt terrible. I just, it means a lot to me to have the respect of the men and women that are a part of the NFL. And I don’t want them to ever think for a minute. I take it lightly.
Mike Sarraille:
So thi this is interesting. I gotta ask you this one. Are you probably the only one that notices those small errors?
Erin Andrews:
My dad does.
Mike Sarraille:
So he’s still, he’s still critiquing you. He’s still coaching and mentoring. When, when, when he is watching you,
Erin Andrews:
I’m so fortunate because he’s able to watch every single football game that I do. Yeah. And, um, the one game he wasn’t able to watch, I was so just, uh, preoccupied in my just thoughts because, uh, a huge hurricane was coming for Tampa. They, I think the governor at that time had even called it the ground zero of this hurricane. And I was in green bay. It was week one, they were getting ready to play the Seahawks. And, you know, my mom was getting ready to go to a shelter. She was crying. She had just packed up our house and all our things and through things in the dishwasher, like, you know, wrapped up in bubble wrap. And my dad had to go cover this story. And we were a rack. I mean, there’s four of us in our family and we were just a rack.
Erin Andrews:
And here I am, I have a 3 45 kick. And my dad’s a Green Bay Packers fan it’s Week 1. Um, you know, during the national Anthem, um, after the national Anthem, Aaron Rogers, he even knew of, you know, my dad covers, he knows my family and he walked over and just said, how’s your dad. And I just, my eyes just like, just like filled with tears. And I was like, I don’t know. And Joe butt comes on the air and says, we’re thinking about all those people in Tampa Bay, including Aaron’s parents. And I’m like, oh my gosh. So that was like the first game ever. My dad didn’t get to watch cuz he was covering this hurricane. And then I think in the fourth quarter he chimed in cuz I was like, dad, don’t use your, your cell phone battery please. Because if you get stuck in his situation, I don’t want your phone to die. And he was like, I’m in, I’m watching go pat, go . So it was great.
Mike Sarraille:
That’s uh, that’s awesome. So I, I’m assuming, you know, these relationships within the NFL and your fellow commentators and, and, and broadcasters, it’s almost like a tribe. It’s a, it’s a family.
Erin Andrews:
Yeah. It’s a family. And it even is with players as well. I mean, you know, and, and coaches and, and people you’ve been around. I mean, you are with these guys, the players and the coaches and the organizations in their highest of highs and in their lowest of lows. And the fact that they’re able to be candid with you and let you in means a lot to me as well. The people that I work with, um, at Fox are, are exactly that they’re your tribe. I mean, I see them more than I see my husband or my family. I spend Christmas with them. I spend Thanksgiving with them. I mean, they’ve heard my stories of my cancer battle. My infertility struggles. Um, they know a lot. I mean, you go out for Friday night dinners and you throw back a couple glasses of wine and you’re telling ’em all the things I get to hear about, you know, raising their kids and uh, their kids going away to college. People bring their wives on the road, you become close with them. You spend, you know, super bowls together. So yeah, they that’s your group.
Mike Sarraille:
This, this is starting to sound a lot like the military, except we don’t bring our wives on the road with us. That’s
Erin Andrews:
That’s another, you guys are actually like fighting for our country. We are providing entertainment. So believe me, I, I have a lot of perspective when it comes to what you guys do.
Mike Sarraille:
I, you know, I appreciate that. We also had even over there a hell of a lot of fun, a hell of a lot of fun, great stories. Yeah.
Erin Andrews:
So I, I will say though, that is pretty cool. Whenever you talk to anyone involved in the military, they, you know, I, I, I try to just be a show, my, you know, compassion and, and, and how grateful I am for what you guys do. And, and you’re sacrificing so much, but it is really cool for them to hear like, Hey, you know, don’t talk down about what you do because we needed that entertainment, you know, at times too. And you see that as well, like with the pandemic and people just turning on sports and just having a break from reality. Right.
Mike Sarraille:
You literally just took the words in my mouth. Yeah. We looked forward to the small things. Mm-hmm and it gives you perspectives of we, and you know, when, when the NFL comes on or college football, it was like, we could tune out what was going on around us and focus on you guys. And for that, we were ever grateful. I, I do. I do remember I had a troop chief who was a fanatical San Francisco 49ers fan. And, uh, we had a mission coming up and he’s like, Mikey, don’t, don’t make us go on this, uh, mission. Cause it was playoffs. I’m like, oh man, don’t do this to me.
Erin Andrews:
Oh,
Mike Sarraille:
Things ended up fall falling through with the, uh, the target package. So we got stay back. But, uh, I, I never let that one go. How about, I I’ve gotta ask this cuz you know, coming outta the military is a, is a wild transition. It’s it just sucks. There’s no way to sugarcoat it, but you know, a lot of your broadcasters are prior, you know, prior athletes who have zero training. Well, I wouldn’t say zero. I’m sure they, they get media training for, for your interviews. But um, I’m sure you’ve seen a lot of them struggle. Do you act as a coach and men to, to some of the players as they retire and get picked up by the networks?
Erin Andrews:
You know, I have been fortunate with the men that I’ve worked with. They’ve been doing this for a long time, but yeah, there’s guys that I’m in touch with a lot, um, that are recently retired or even thinking about this down the road. I think somebody like a Michael Strahan has made this something guys now, first of all, look at and they think, man, I better start planning for my future, which is what I know a lot of these, you know, organ, future after sports, um, you know what they try to drill into these guys’ heads. But um, yeah, you know, I’ve had great talks with a lot of current players that are thinking about it and you think that they know a lot about what you do because you’re like, Hey, you know, it’s like every week, but they’re not watching, they’re playing .
Erin Andrews:
So we were talking to one, one big time player about, you know, potentially doing a studio role, which is what you see Michael Terry Howie. Yes. Uh, Jimmy do on our show and he was like, well I just wanna do it for a big, big audience. So that’s the game. And we said, no, no, no, no, no that’s studio like you wanna do, if you want your words to, you know what you’re saying out there that’s studio because you’re halftime for every big game. It’s not just the game we’re doing. It’s all the games. And he goes, you guys don’t do half times for all the different games. And uh, my buddy and I were, there we go. Yeah, they do. like, you only know it cuz we do it for yours, but then we’re doing it in Dallas. We’re doing it in New York. But um, you know, my husband is, is a, is a retired NHL player and he’s on television as well.
Erin Andrews:
And um, the only criticism or advice I give him is smile more because he has a gorgeous smile and uh, it lights up a room, which is kind of funny. My dad is always telling me to smile a little bit, but my husband got it really, really easily. And he started doing in-game hits during the playoffs. He would do the studio, uh pre-game intermission reports and post. But then for playoffs this year, they started using him in game, which is what I do. And I was like, shit, that was so good. Like you nailed that. Um, so he picked it up really, really quickly, but
Mike Sarraille:
You, you don’t give him like, Hey, that was really good, but you could fix this one little thing or, or tweak this or
Erin Andrews:
No. I mean, again, I tell him to smile. I tell him he’s in a hard spot because he’s reporting now on guys that he played with. Yes. And you wanna be careful and, and a lot of athletes after they retire have to deal with that. You people wanna hear your honest assessment, you know, that was a, that was a shitty throw or that was a terrible pick. Uh, you wanna hear guys say that, but also guys are don’t a lot of times wanna say those things. So I always try to tell, ’em just be honest about the guys, but you don’t have to totally put them down. You know, if you think the defense played poorly, then say it, but offer perspective of how they could turn it around and what they’re thinking about now after such a crappy defensive performance. I don’t know.
Mike Sarraille:
So I, I, as we’re talking, I’m making this assumption that trust is the capital a broadcaster has with the players. And, uh, is it once you, you destroy that trust you’re, you’re, you’re done with certain players, they won’t talk to you. They won’t give you the, the time of day.
Erin Andrews:
I think. So it is for me. And, and I’ve talked to, you know, two guys that I admire a lot and Tom Brady and Bill Belichick into kind of the report heard that, Hey, yeah. Who, uh, what, um, kind of the reporters that they talk to a lot on a regular basis. Um, I know Melissa Stark is somebody that Coach Belichick will sit down and do these interviews with and they always come across so well. And um, I, Tom Brady and Jim Gray have a really, really, uh, fantastic relationship. And I’ve asked both of them, what is it about Melissa? What is it about Jim gray that you like, because I want to learn to emulate that and be looked upon as they, you know, look at those two. And they both said that right away. I just trust them. I trust them. They’re not gonna burn me.
Erin Andrews:
And, um, yeah, it’s a huge thing. I could never imagine having the role that an Adam Scher or Jay Glazer has at Fox, who I think is the best at what he does. Um, they are there to report the news, whether it, it hurts your feelings or not, or, or whether they’re gonna, he’s gonna tell you you’re done at the end of the year. You know, you’re not the team’s not gonna rehire you, they’re gonna fire you. So, um, I could never imagine having that role. I do not want that role. I love what I have, but yes, trust is… Like it is the one thing. Yep.
Mike Sarraille:
I, I love the fact that Erin Andrews is looking at other broadcasters and in, in pulling the things they do well, that one that’s that’s curiosity right there, that probably keeps you sharp and always looking for the best practices. But the fact that somebody at your level is always looking at other broadcasters to see what they do well, that’s, I’ve gotta say Erin, that that is admirable and amongst all the high performers, and I’ve worked with some high performers in the, in the military, uh, the top of what they do, mm-hmm curiosity was an attribute where those guys would, they wouldn’t, it was and think humility as well to go up to somebody and say, Hey, you do that. Well, how are you doing that? Or how can I do do it better? That’s that’s, uh, that’s amazing.
Erin Andrews:
So, well, I just, I feel like, look, you’re, I mean, even Tom Brady, I maybe he’s not, and I don’t even know, and maybe Aaron’s not, but I’m thinking just every single year, they have to kind of try to adjust how defenses are preparing for them. Mm-hmm , I mean, I even talked to Aaron Donald last year before the, uh, NFC championship. And I just said, look, you’re covered, you know, by three to four guys, usually every single game, how did, how in the heck do you even have success? And he was just talking about all the film that he watches and the preparation and how he has to try certain things to deal with all the protection and, and, and guys all over him. And I’m obviously not dealing with defenses, but I, I guess the defense is a father time. And, and, and also for me just, I don’t wanna get too complacent.
Erin Andrews:
Oh, here’s one ready? I mean, this I’m obsessed with the Derek Geer docu-series I can’t talk about it enough. It’s like, it’s, it’s something, if I like am, am doing a crappy job, cleaning my kitchen. I’m like, what would Derek do? Competition eliminates complacency, stop it. Like I, and, and, and other broadcasters are my competition and I, yeah. I mean, we are like a brotherhood sisterhood, but if so, and so if a top athlete is like, well, I wanna talk to her, cuz she’s better than talking to Erin that’s competition. So what is she doing? What are they doing to get the Tom Bradys to say, I wanna do my sit down with you. I gotta find out. I love that Derek Jer,
Mike Sarraille:
That that is an amazing quote. And I’m gonna steal that in trade market. I’m sure Peter will come after me, but it’s okay. I have no money
Erin Andrews:
He
Mike Sarraille:
Become after that. Yeah, no, no. That’s that’s that is powerful. And it’s, it’s almost iron sharpens iron. So as one man, sharpens another. I mean, when, when you are operating at the level you’re operating, um, I’m sure you’re sharpening, uh, each other, but so is there a competition though? You, can you feel that competition amongst broadcasters and the younger generation coming up, trying to sort of chip away your, uh, your, your yield?
Erin Andrews:
sure. I mean, and, but I like it. I, I get off on that. I really do. And yeah, I love it. I, I, I wanna see what other people are up to. I wanna see who they’re getting as a sit down interview. I wanna see, you know, what stories, uh, so and so is telling them, and, and how they attack per even like stupid things. Like, and it’s not stupid, but even injury updates, right? Like we’re on the field and we get upper body, we will be evaluated at the half. We’ll let you know, after that. I mean, you know, how easy for me it is to say, well, Kevin, uh, so, and so is being evaluated for an upper body injury. We’ll have more details at the half. Like what, what in the hell did I just tell you? Okay. Let’s just say, what I should do is let me observe what happened, what I saw, what he said to the trainer, or I’m not really allowed to do that.
Erin Andrews:
So I shouldn’t do that. What his vibe, what his mood was that they are going to update me after the half. This is come, who is coming in for him. He hasn’t played in X amount of games or he has he struggled or he is done well. And that’s just things I learned from like, when Michelle Tefoya was working Sundays or Melissa Stark, or just how other sideline reporters kind of handle, uh, an easy injury report. Do they add it? Are they easily getting in out of it? You know, like stuff like that, that just, I get off on that.
Mike Sarraille:
How, how much of your prep is, I mean, you’re just reading up on the players, their backgrounds what’s going on in their lives. I mean, is that, is that a big part of broadcasting as well as known the players sometimes better than they know themselves.
Erin Andrews:
um, yeah, a, it is sophist. It’s from my job. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I say that all the time that I do feel like down on the field, I am, I am a private eye. Like, I feel like I’m a spy. I feel like I am like part of the CIA, because you know, a lot of times the trainers, the coaches, the quarterbacks, they’re pissed about a situation somebody’s hurt. They’re figuring out there’s an equipment, uh, malfunction. And I have to sit there and it’s, it’s good shit. It’s stuff that the booth doesn’t have. And it adds to the game. There was this situation when I was younger and I was covering college and it was a big west, uh, West Virginia game. And I’ll never forget it. I think I learned a lot about myself and I learned a lot about how to handle the sidelines, that game.
Erin Andrews:
Um, one of the star running backs of West Virginia, they were playing a huge matchup on Thursday night football, and they needed to win the game. And they were running the ball, running the ball, running the ball, and they needed to, they needed him to score. And all of a sudden he is off the field and he had a helmet malfunction and I’m like, holy shit. And I’m like, Fowler, his helmets, you know, messed up, da, da, da, da, da. They’re still working on it. Well, the play’s happening. And like, people didn’t know if he was hurt, what was happening. And, you know, I just remember after the game, our, that sounds so stupid, but I saw it right away and I like could add as soon as they’re like, why are you taking him outta the game? What’s going on? His helmets messed up. So then we got shot to the equipment guy.
Erin Andrews:
I’m like, get the equipment guy. He’s running here. They’re doing this. I, I get off on that. Like, I’ve got goosebumps right now. And I’m just like, that was something that was like 15, 20 years ago. But I remember Chris Fowler had said to me after the game, he was like, that is where you are at your most like, valuable. Like, we need you so badly for stuff because there wasn’t even a break. I saw it happen right away. I saw him throw and I’m like his equipment LA da. And you could give the viewer that I could give the guys in the booth right away. Cuz then the back of burning back, came in and it’s like, holy crap, are they not gonna score? You see how I love this kind of stuff? Yes. Like it’s just fun for me.
Mike Sarraille:
Do you, do you adrenaline dump after the game? Because it sounds like you’re just,
Erin Andrews:
Yeah. I, I mean, it’s so bad how many coffees I’d pump, um, before the game, but like after we were talking about this the other day, uh, with somebody it’s like, we all are in the car coming home from the stadium where they’re going to the airport or we’re going to the hotel. None of us talk because we’re so tired, we’re so exhausted. And um, and, and a lot of times these car service people will turn the radio on. We’re like, can you turn that off, please turn that off. Like, I don’t wanna hear, because also too at that moment, I’ve got somebody in my ear as well. I hear program, I hear what you hear for the game. And then I have also my producer in my ear as well. Yeah. And so, and then I’m trying to listen to what Tom Brady’s saying to his offensive line or to Mike Evans or things like that. You know? So I literally have 15 voices in my head, so I’m exhausted.
Mike Sarraille:
So, you know, Erin, everyone would say you’re a very personable person, you know? Uh, you’re very charismatic at the end of those games. I know we talked about the adrenaline dump. Do you just need alone time? Do you need decompression time?
Erin Andrews:
Yeah. I mean, we talk about being in the car together as a group and with your team, uh, we’re all so quiet, like I said, but we all really end up going to the bar at the end or we, you know, sit in the lobby together if the bar’s not available and we all just kind of talk and we all talk about as a team, like you said, your tribe, what everybody did, right. There’s always something, no, none of us think we had a perfect performance. Um, you know what, we need to fix what we need to do better. Uh, crap. This graphic went on, the ref held it for too long. Dang. I messed up that injury report. So we all kind of download together as a team, which it, when you have a close group, like we do, it’s pretty cool because we’re also there to lift each other up and be like, dude, come on that wasn’t your fault. Like people at home, get what you’re saying. So that’s how you end up being really, really tight with our, our group.
Mike Sarraille:
You know what we call that in the military. Right. And we do that after, after every training, we call it the after action review. And so after a combat mission or training, we come back and everyone talks about their performance, both the good and the bad and, and you can be very vulnerable and no one’s gonna be like, yeah, you really messed that up. Be like, Hey it’s okay. What did you learn from it? And what can we learn from the mistake you’ve made so that we don’t repeat that same mistake. That’s right. It’s one of the greatest individual and organizational development tools that any organization has. And what we found is the best, the best high performers in high performing teams all do that, that same process that is so encouraging to hear we, you know. Yeah. That’s awesome. So let, let’s get into the lighter side before we, uh, we, we get deep as we, we like to say, um, so the podcast, you, you and Carissa, I mean, you mm-hmm, , I’ve listened to a few episodes. You guys get vulnerable. It’s almost like no holds barred. There’s no subject off limits. Like where did that come about? Did you two come together or did somebody approach you guys to start that podcast?
Erin Andrews:
Yeah, we’ve been asked about it. Um, a couple of times and people just saying, you know, uh, you, you both are pretty funny. You both are good friends. You both are, go have gone through a lot in your life. Um, and people only really hear from me 15 seconds during the game, and that’s either about a groin injury or about a defense that needs to make an adjustment. You know? So, uh, Carissa was always kind of about the fact that she’s just like, listen, you’re funnier than a lot of people like know or think, and it was during the pandemic. And she just said, let’s try this. And, and I agreed and we, we wanted to call the podcast. Well, everybody else has one. Why don’t we? But I mean, that didn’t fly. So yeah, we’ve stuck with it. And, um, it’s been a lot of fun, you know, I’ve, I’ve, like I mentioned with you, I’ve been pretty open about infertility struggles and, and, and people reaching out and talking about that has been amazing.
Erin Andrews:
And Chris has dealt with, um, you know, going through divorce and, and putting ourself back out there. And, and it’s just like, Hey, guess what? We’re just like everybody else. We, you know, we have nose hairs and, you know, going to the bathroom issues and, and we have to travel for a living and talk to really good looking athletes, but this is what’s really going on behind the scenes. I had a huge booger in my nose during that interview. And , so that’s just where people kind of see the unglamorous side of like what they think we’re all about, you know? Yeah. It’s
Mike Sarraille:
Been fun. We need to see more of that though. And that that’s awesome that you guys have the, the, the, the sort of moral courage to put yourselves out there and be vulnerable with that. No, thank you. You know, I’ve always gotta wonder, do you pay attention to the, what I call the keyboard crusaders? The ones that are so, you know, quick to throw comments on other people’s lives because they can do it anonymously behind a keyboard sitting in their home. Oh yeah. I mean, do
Erin Andrews:
In their basement,
Mike Sarraille:
Given em, what you do, do you pay attention to that or have you learned to just totally tune that out?
Erin Andrews:
Look, I’ve gone through some really public things in my life from being stocked. Yeah. To being in a major trial to, you know, it just moving from college to the NFL and yeah. Early in my career, you know, I, I, I get it. My nose is big. I get it, my voice, isn’t the smoothest out there. And, um, you know, everybody has a critique. Everybody has something to say and, um, there’s some days it can really get you. And then there’s some days you like crack up about it and you do the Jimmy Fallon mean tweets. Right. I’ve talked to so many athletes and I’ve, I’ve listened to what they’ve, you know, one athlete told me one time that you could have a stadium, you know, with a hundred thousand people cheering for you. And then you get off that field and you have one mean tweet and it ruins your whole day.
Erin Andrews:
And it’s like, what the heck? You know, like, yeah, what does this person know? So candidly, there are some times after a couple glasses of wine, I see some of these tweets and I’m like, you know what I wanna say? And then I wake up the next morning. I’m like, oh my God, I hope I didn’t do it. and I didn’t, I showed restraint. But, um, yeah, you, you try to take you with a grain of salt. I pretty much on game days, won’t look at what people have to say, cuz that could ruin my day. When, you know, you, you try to stand up there in front of how many millions of people and give this report and all that. So, um, everybody’s a critic, but if they all could do it, they would. So I try to remember that
Mike Sarraille:
Erin, I, I do wanna bring up one thing because you know, one I know is a very tough, possibly dark time in your life is, uh, mm-hmm , you know, you’re, you’re a cancer survivor. Um, when that news came, came forward, when, when the doc came to you with, I mean, what did that feel like?
Erin Andrews:
Yeah. I think, you know, it, what’s unfortunate for me now is I didn’t really realize the repercussions it would have in my life. It has unfortunately had a lot to do with us having a baby. And I, I think at that time very much, I I’m obviously a very driven person. I, I found out week three of the season, we had a super bowl. I was so worried about missing a game. I was like, I’m not missing a game. And my doctor at the time was like, well, that’s not what I’m talking about. She’s like, you have to get surgery. And I was like, mm, okay. But I’m not missing the super bowl. And then when they started talking about like how major the surgery was gonna be and so forth, I still was so worried about being a part of football that year. Not because I didn’t wanna look weak or uh, or yeah, I just didn’t.
Erin Andrews:
I work with a lot of men too. And the cancer that I had, wasn’t a cancer they could get. It was something that had to do with the female body and reproductive system and so forth. But I think the biggest thing was I just didn’t wanna miss time. And then, you know, the week that I was getting the cancer taken out was the week that Brett Farve, who I was raised to cheer for was getting his name in the circle of honor, uh, the ring of honor at Lambo. And it was against a young group led by Dak Prescott and Ezekiel Elliot who were rookies. And I was like, there’s no way in hell, I’m missing this game. I don’t give a shit. If I’m 48 hours off the table, I’m not missing this game. So my dad and my boyfriend, who’s my husband now at the time, ended up coming to Lambo because they were like, okay, they just didn’t trust me which that’s fine, but I wasn’t missing the game.
Erin Andrews:
And then the unfortunate part about the whole thing is that we did learn before that game that, uh, the cancer had spread. And so I was gonna have to get a second, uh, a second surgery. And if that one didn’t work out, then we were gonna have to probably look into chemo and radiation and, and a hysterectomy and so forth. But thankfully we didn’t and I did have a second surgery and my oncologist who performed that one was amazing. And I basically looked at him when I was all milked up and, and being rolled in and I said, okay, this is fourth and whatever. And you’re Tom Brady and you have to kick this thing’s ass. And he was like, I love you. I have no idea what that means and I’ll do my best so, um, but yeah, it was, it sucked. I mean, it, I, but I just go into this mode where work is everything. And, um, I, I, I didn’t really understand, I think how big the situation is now I do, because I I’m seeing the consequences of it all, but, um, yeah, it was tough, but thankfully we got through it
Mike Sarraille:
Is, is it work or is it your just God honest passion? Mm.
Erin Andrews:
I love that question. It’s my passion. Yeah. I love it so much.
Mike Sarraille:
You know, I have no doubt your family was pleading with you just to take a knee, but, uh, I think you are living proof that sports broadcasters do play hurt as well. Oh, and that’s awesome. I, that that’s
Erin Andrews:
Nice of you to say
Mike Sarraille:
In your mind, was there ever a doubt that you were, you weren’t gonna beat this thing?
Erin Andrews:
Um, no, I just, because no, I I’ve been through so much already in my life that I was like, I’ll, I’ve got this. It’ll be okay. And you know, like you said, I had an amazing support group. I had, you know, my family, my husband, I didn’t really tell a lot of my friends. Yeah. But the ones that knew were the ones that I knew that were the ones that could help me through it. So, um, yeah. I wouldn’t have been able to do that without them.
Mike Sarraille:
That’s, that’s amazing. So, you know, I want to, I wanna jump in before we get into the, the final round of questions, but, uh, you, I mean, where is just Aw, rushing it and, and the
Erin Andrews:
Well, so funny, you should ask, this is a new crop top. We’re gonna be, uh, we have for all 32 teams in the NFL, but I am not biased. So I just wear the NFL one, but yeah, we’ve really evolved. We’re so pumped about it.
Mike Sarraille:
Well, I mean, the funny thing too is when you look back, you’re like, why hasn’t anyone done this before, especially
Erin Andrews:
With thank you
Mike Sarraille:
The female demographic, cuz Hey, I mean, it’s not to say that women don’t look sexy in a boxy Jersey, but why wouldn’t they have a specific cut to them? That’s and did I see you guys are forecasting an 85% increase in sales in 2022
Erin Andrews:
You’re damn straight. We are damn even in a down economy, you guys are. And like, think about that too. And I mean, that’s another thing, like thank goodness for people and finding relief in sports, because I mean, year two of where was in the middle was the first year of the pandemic. So it was like, oh my God, are we gonna even have games? Are people even gonna buy our stuff? And I think it was just a nice relief for them to be a part of that where their team’s colors and, and look fashionable anywhere and everywhere, you know?
Mike Sarraille:
Yep. My wife is loving it. So thank you on, on from the Elli family. Thank you. I I’ve just gotta ask, when is NASCAR coming into play?
Erin Andrews:
Oh, I, I don’t know. I could definitely ask what team does your wife root for?
Mike Sarraille:
Oh, well, you know, she basically roots for anything. Uh, well, I, I gotta tell you a quick story. The first time, uh, I took her on a date. I flew her out to Colorado cuz I went to the university of Colorado, Boulder for a short, short period of time before I enlisted the Marine Corps and we are wasted. And so I want to get her in some university of Colorado stuff. And uh, we’re at the store in the, the bottom of the stadium, which I know you’ve probably been to that stadium and uh, they didn’t have changing rooms. And so, uh, you know, she she’s like, Hey, turn around, like watch, watch out for me, just whips her shirt off, puts the other shirt on. Of course I turn around to, to sneak a peek and I’m basically like, yeah, I’m marrying this woman. Uh, but so, you know, Boulder and of course we’re, you know, we’re Texas UT uh, she’s a Raider and unfortunately, oh great. I know. So, oh
Erin Andrews:
No, we have so much great stuff. I’ll get your information and send her a goodie bag. We have, uh, our stuff right now is so fantastic. And we do, we do carry UT.
Mike Sarraille:
Where, where, where do you predict that company’s gonna go just, you’re just gonna continue to, to, to rake in teams different lines or do you have a, a, a grander vision for it right now?
Erin Andrews:
Yeah, we have a big announcement coming actually in a couple weeks of another league that we are so excited to be a part of. Um, and, uh, I’m, I’m pumped for that, but I just listen. I mean, I was reminded, I just got a hard pass from somebody with another business venture and I was super sad for a couple minutes because I remember to Derek Jeter quote he’s, like he said in, uh, his docu series, he’s a real told you, so guy mm-hmm and uh, he remembers when people doubted him where they were, what they said, what they were wearing. And, uh, you know, when we were given a hard pass the other day on something we were selling, uh, my manager had just said, remember how many people had said no to wear? So I feel bad for them that they did. So I, where do I see it going?
Erin Andrews:
I, I knew there was a need for this. I knew there was an area that I knew there was a white space. I knew women wanted it. I also have such a different kind of, not perspective, but vantage point with it all. Yes, I’m right there with the fans. I can touch them. I can feel them. I can see them, I can talk to them. So they know that that, you know, I’m selling them this stuff and they know they are always asking me what I’m wearing and, and it’s just different from a big time, uh, kind of manufacturer or label that isn’t at the game, I’m at the game. So I can talk to them. I can see what their needs are. I can address those and, and everything. So where would I like to see this go? I mean, I would like to see it as go as, as high up as it can. I mean, you know, like Kylie Jenner style, I don’t know the pink jet, whatever.
Mike Sarraille:
Hey, ki Kylie, Kylie Jenner has nothing on you unless we get around the podcast and say the, uh, opposite
Erin Andrews:
Thing. Exactly.
Mike Sarraille:
So do you ever step back to, to maybe realize like, I, you, well, I’m not diminishing it when I say this, so I’m a sports broadcaster. I never played in the league, but I’ve had, mm-hmm, sometimes more of an impact on sports than some of the players did. Have you, have you ever stepped back and, and realize that?
Erin Andrews:
No, because I don’t really know if that’s true. I don’t think don’t know how much of an impact I’ve had.
Mike Sarraille:
Oh,
Erin Andrews:
Well, that’s so nice of you to say, but I mean, I, I do think for younger girls that want to pursue this as a passion or a reality or dream or whatever, but, um, I don’t know. I work with some pretty damn talented beast out there that just do incredible things with their bodies day in, day out to try to win. And I am not lacing up. Like they are so
Mike Sarraille:
Well. Any, any,
Erin Andrews:
Although some of my boots have great laces. Oh,
Mike Sarraille:
They do know they do no I’m kidding. And they, the, the gear is getting better. Uh, with each year you ever look back at like the eighties, nineties, and just how bad the, uh, the uniforms were. They were blocking now. They’re, you know, very, oh, I love it. Form fitting. Uh, I
Erin Andrews:
Love when the guys were like wearing the half shirts, all that was great.
Mike Sarraille:
That, that was, I did love that. Look, I did love that. Look, mm-hmm well, Erin, we, we end this with a, uh, a series of questions and they can be a little deep. Um, but we do like to show vulnerability. I think one of the most human traits, you know, people wanna say masculinity is vulnerability is you have to have the, the ability to be vulnerable in order to garner trust. And you, you do that well with your, your counterparts. So what is the biggest failure of your life and what did you learn from it?
Erin Andrews:
Wow. Um,
Mike Sarraille:
Yeah, this, these are the stump, the jump questions. That’s why we don’t prepare you and we can pass and go onto the next one, if you want. Did I just stump Erin Andrews?
Erin Andrews:
Well, because I was gonna right away say one thing, but I’m like, no, I haven’t failed in that. Um, because I, I’m still gonna, I’m still going to succeed in it. Um,
Mike Sarraille:
Love the attitude.
Erin Andrews:
I would say my biggest failure, but I know I can get better at it. And I know I freaking will. If I get the opportunity again, I really sucked at being a studio host and I got two opportunities in my career to do it with TBS and with Fox, when I first signed on listen, being on the sidelines is my, is my love, uh, it’s my passion. I like to be right there with the guys. It is hard on your life. It is hard on your body. It’s it’s, you know, being in the studio is, is, is a lot cozier and, and homier than January in Green Bay. Um, I just, I feel like when I got the supper second opportunity with Fox, I let my fear creep in early in my career that I had when I didn’t do a not, uh, great job with TBS. So I, I think that’s right now, professionally one of my biggest failures, but I, I am certain that when I do get the opportunity, again, I’ll kick ass
Mike Sarraille:
At it. I, I have no doubt. You will biggest regret of your life. And don’t say no regrets. That is the biggest bullshit answer that anyone can say. We all have regrets. And I know our failures determine, or, or help define who we are, but biggest regret.
Speaker 3:
Mm
Mike Sarraille:
I’m loving
Erin Andrews:
This. I mean, yeah. I, I think it has to do with family. I mean, we’re, we’re a really, really tight family, but there’s just things I’m, I’m sad. I’ve had to miss out on because of my job and like, you know, like what I don’t get to have a Christmas anymore. And, and how many do you get to have those with your family? But the good news about mine is we celebrate on the 26th and the 27th. Nice. Um, but yeah, that I am a person that my job has taken me away quite a bit.
Mike Sarraille:
Funny enough. That is the biggest regret of my life. And I’m not trying to, I’m not saying that cuz you’re on here, it’s being deployed all those times and, and hell, I was not there for the, you know, my kids growing up, uh, still, still haunts me to this, uh, to this day. Uh, especially with folks as they get older in their seventies is making it out to, uh, the bay
Erin Andrews:
Area. That’s where my emotion. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Mike Sarraille:
So what are those one to three tenants that you live your life by those non-negotiables that have led to much of your, uh, success, you know, discipline hard work, tho those type of, uh, tenants that the listeners can take and maybe implement into their lives.
Erin Andrews:
Um, gimme an example, like
Mike Sarraille:
Hard work discipline, always be kind. What, what are, what are the rules for Erin Andrews?
Erin Andrews:
Be humble, be grateful, always treat everyone in the room. Like they are the most important person. There’s a lot of athletes I’ve been around that does that, that, that do that. Uh, Derek Jeter is one of ’em Tom Brady does that. I think that’s what separates guys like that. Um, and I really, really appreciate it. Um, let’s see, what else? Um, I just, I, I swear by how much I prepare and, and study. And I also think too, and, and this may be the biggest one is that in a college professor said this to me. Yeah. You have to love it because if you don’t, it’s just not gonna work out. I mean, I live out of a suitcase. I’ve mentioned missing Christmas. I mentioned missing Thanksgiving. Um, I missed, you know, my husband’s return to Los Angeles, you know, for, because I was going to cover the NFC championship.
Erin Andrews:
I’ve missed, I missed his Stanley cup party. Uh, you know, one of ’em because I had to go to a Fox seminar, but, um, you have to love your job because if you don’t, it’s just gonna, there’s too many other things it’s just gonna come out and, and, and just show that you don’t, and there there’s so many sacrifices, like we talked about our regrets of missing things. Yeah. I regret that. I miss it or I have missed stuff, but I love it. What I do so much that it kind of helps balance it out a tad, if that makes sense. Probably not. It,
Mike Sarraille:
It, it does. You, you know, especially given the current environment, so many people are unhappy with their current jobs and yeah, one, I will tell you, I will do whatever it takes to put food on the table for my family. If it’s pushing a broom, you know what, I’m gonna be the very best at pushing a broom to the point where people are like, send Mike mm-hmm , he’ll get the, uh, the job done. I love that. And you said something about be prepared. Uh, we’ve all heard the phrase fortune favors the bold, I think that’s bullshit. Fortune favors the prepared and that’s, that’s what I’ve always seen. The battles won before you even fight much like those, uh, those games in the NFL, I’m sure it’s one before they even step on the, uh, in the field in on certain ways. Uh, last one when the time comes and you’re looking back on your life, how will Erin Andrews know that she lived a life of impact and purpose? How are you gonna judge your life? And I know that’s a tough one.
Erin Andrews:
Um, I think I’ve learned a lot about this on this vacation. Well, not vacation, but we’re this isn’t, you know, we’re out here for like a month, but we’re around a lot of families and we’re trying to learn how to raise kids before we have ’em. And we’re seeing the families that were really, uh, that do it the right way. And I think a way we’d like to emulate, and I think it’s just seeing what we’re able to just ha instill and have and what our kids become. That’s I think what we do it for me, you know, that’s, I mean, if you met my golden retriever, you’d already know he’s perfect. So I, I he’s walked in and out a few times. Yeah.
Mike Sarraille:
I was gonna say, I just watched
Erin Andrews:
Him. You heard him walked down the stairs. Yeah. Walked stairs with my husband. Yeah. Well,
Mike Sarraille:
That’s probably one of the most common, uh, answers we get is people say they went back at their family or their kids, but that’s, that’s where the impact happens. So, well, Erin, I know you were on vacation, so I don’t wanna take up anymore time.
Erin Andrews:
Not really
Mike Sarraille:
I cannot thank you enough for joining in and for all the listeners for just the gold. You’ve been spitting out these, these nuggets that people can implement into their lives. Uh, you are, and I’ll say it an icon. Uh, again, we love watching you on the sidelines. Uh, again, from the military perspective, thank you for the entertainment you gave us while we were over there. If there’s anything men’s journal can do for you or myself, please don’t hesitate to ask. So go have fun. And, uh, hopefully we will see you again. All
Erin Andrews:
Right. I appreciate you. Thank you so much. Thank you
Mike Sarraille:
Guys. And this has been the Men’s Journal Everyday Warrior Podcast. We’ll see you next time.
from Men's Journal https://ift.tt/cp0XYlV
0 comments